UDreamOfJanie

Dream a Little Dream of Me.

Tears for an Anonymous Teenager

Deliquiscence (Pride with eau de Parfume), by *TreMichLan* @ FlickrA forlorn peek above our garters to Miss Vicki at God is a Dyke for bringing us this bit of heartbreaking news.

(Original source seems to be the Reading Eagle, via 365gay.)

Apparently, Joyce Y. Beddell, 61, walked in on her sixteen year old granddaughter in flagrante delicto with another girl from the neighborhood. Instead of politely excusing herself, Mrs. Beddell chose a different, heartbreaking path.

The granddaughter had just finished having sex with another 16-year-old girl and was in an upstairs bedroom. Beddell walked in and found them together.

(Continued below the fold)

The neighborhood girl ran out of the house to her nearby home while Beddell was beating her granddaughter with the cane.

Neighbors said they saw Beddell leave the house a short time later. She was accompanied by her limping granddaughter. The two of them went to the other girl’s house to tell her mother what they had been doing.

Beddell returned to her home with her granddaughter and continued to beat her with a belt.

The granddaughter is safe in a hospital, being treated for “unspecified injuries” and Mrs. Beddell is safely in jail in lieu of $10,000 bail. The charges pending against her include assault, aggravated assault, recklessly endangering another person, and endangering the welfare of a child.

This rips my guts out. It’s horrific that such violence against non-strictly-heterosexual people occurs so frequently, but this wasn’t just some random religious fundamentalist. This was a young woman’s own grandmother. She beat her own granddaughter, with a cane, until the cane broke, then humiliated her by parading her down the street to the other girl’s home, marched her home again, and continued beating her with a belt because her cane had broken.

My heart bleeds for the granddaughter. I’m too sad to even be angry, though I should be, and I feel guilty that I can’t even get past the sadness to get to the anger.

(Crossposted at Sex in the Public Square)

From whence came the art:

That image is titled Deliquiscence (Pride with eau de Parfume), by *TreMichLan*.

Filed under: Blogs In Our MonkeySphere, Equality, Fundies, Rants, Religion, Romance, Sex, , ,

43 Responses

  1. Beth says:

    That’s so sad, and unfortunately not at all uncommon.

    Even more common are the ‘quieter’ abuses; the daily verbal and emotional diatribes and weights leveed against children and teens who fall outside the narrow confines of the middle road.

    Maybe one day the world will change.

  2. Thanks so much for cross posting that at Sex In The Public Square. It’s good to see your name around there again!

  3. JanieBelle says:

    Thank you, Elizabeth.

    I just had to share.

  4. JanieBelle says:

    Sadly, Beth,

    You’re probably right.

  5. Infophile says:

    I’m with Beth here. This type of bigotry is far too pervasive in our society. This type of explosion really stands out (and fortunately gets a reaction), but there are many other cases that go unreported. My best friend’s girlfriend is afraid to come out to her parents for fear that they might kick her out and/or disown her. You can imagine how many people this actually has happened to.

    Seriously, what is it about homosexuality that promotes such hatred?

  6. rystefn says:

    OMG… I swear this kind of thing makes me cry.

    My poor Dove lives under the fear of getting this kind of reaction and has been hiding from her family for years, Hell, it took her three years to tell me, even. I can’t imagine what would drive a person to be so hateful about something which in no way affects them…

  7. Bug Girl says:

    Wow, I hadn’t seen that story.
    So sad. 😦

  8. Kristine says:

    I wonder what else was going on in that horror household that made a 16-year-old submit to a whipping – the poor girl sounds like she’s been beaten down a lot. Probably has zippity-doo-dah for self-esteem.

    This makes me angry! I’m glad that jailed that bitch. I hope they throw the book at her.

  9. Kristine says:

    “That bitch” meaning the grandmother, of course.

    Seriously, what is it about homosexuality that promotes such hatred?

    I wish I knew. It’s like yelling at the sun for shining.

  10. JanieBelle says:

    Thank you all for your comments. rystefn and Bug Girl, forgive me I was away when your comments got hung in the filter. You should be Ok from here out.

    I’m still choking on this. I just don’t understand, no matter what, how someone could do this to their own grandchild.

    And I feel for people like rystefn’s Dove. I don’t understand parents like that. There shouldn’t be anything you can’t tell your family, especially your parents and grandparents.

    Only in a world gone mad.

    I think Kristine sums up the larger issue well.

    It’s like yelling at the sun for shining.

    Kisses to you all.

  11. JanieBelle says:

    From the Reading Eagle article,

    Beddell told police that she had done nothing wrong and said she should have been allowed to discipline her granddaughter as she saw fit.

    Not even, “Oh my god, I’m so sorry I lost it and flipped out. I was just shocked.”

    Heartbreak upon heartbreak.

  12. […] After he’s fired and has his ass sued clean off, I hope they throw this bastard in jail with Joyce Beddell.  They can mutilate each other to their hearts’ content, and leave the damned kids alone. […]

  13. Rystefn says:

    Some people are irredeemably evil (IRE). A lack of realizing the wrong in your own actions is a strong indicator of a high risk for IRE. If you feel that you do no wrong, even after being arrested for a violent crime, you should seek a psychiatric professional immediately. While there is no cure for IRE, treatments exist which can minimize the risk to others.

  14. JanieBelle says:

    Very well said, Rystefn.

  15. urB'n sKoLa says:

    This story is, heartbreaking and unfortunately rather common.

    But I think there are certain contexts that need to be injected into the conversation for the sake of having a fair dialogue.

    Joyce doesn’t just need punishment, she needs education, and mental health help. Her mental shortcoings are not unlike the mental shortcomings of others. She is not only an elderly woman, she is an elderly black woman, for whom the disrespect is two-fold.

    Not only was the young woman having sex in her home, but she was having lesbian sex in her home. Despite our disdain for her response, it needs to be read for what it represents.

    That said, it is a horror and a shame that people are able to live in the world and hold such strong hateful views. I know my own mother might have responded in the same way had she caught me “disrespecting her house.” She has made it very clear that she will not tolerate it and coming from a home where spanking was the norm, I wasn’t all too surprised. I wholeheartedly disavaow the practice, but how far exactly can my disavowal REALLY go?

    There have to be more compelling strategies of deterrence.

    -urB’n sKoLa

  16. JanieBelle says:

    Thank you for your thoughts, urB’n sKoLa.

    Obviously you have a perspective which is unavailable to me, so I want to especially thank you for adding it to the discussion.

    I’d like to see you elaborate on it, if you wouldn’t mind. Could you share how this would be especially affronting to a black woman of that age? What would you say it is that has made it particularly unacceptable in that cultural community?

    I concur with your assessment of spankings. Spanking is an activity that should be reserved for consenting adults, in my opinion.

    Thank you again for your insights, and for a perspective I don’t always get a lot of here, to the detriment of this blog. I hope you’ll return frequently.

  17. Gemini Girl says:

    “Even more common are the ‘quieter’ abuses; the daily verbal and emotional diatribes and weights leveed against children and teens who fall outside the narrow confines of the middle road”.

    Beth, your words touch my heart. Children and adolescents are so vulnerable to the powerful impact of “the daily verbal and emotional diatribes and weights” of words and actions of those who profess to care for the child/youth and, probably do care, in their own manner.

    I don’t think prison is the place for the young woman’s grandmother, even though I cannot imagine beating a person, particularly a person I love, due to their sexual orientation. Our society too rarely is open to embracing diversity and difference. I value urB’n sKoLa’s perspective as education and developing society and cultural awareness are where change will begin.

  18. JanieBelle says:

    Thank you for your comment, GeminiGirl.

    Yet, what are we to do with Ms. Beddell? If not prison, should we put her into the mental health care system? I find it unlikely that she will get the help she needs there, either.

    So long as this nation tolerates the hate preached from the pulpits of America because it happens to be wrapped in the death shroud of Jesus, this incident will repeat itself in bedrooms across America.

    It’s time to stop giving religion a free pass for teaching people that it’s OK to hate The Other, so long as you wave your Bible while you do it. It is not acceptable, and calling it religion does not make it so.

    And though Ms. Beddell is free to believe any stupid thing she wants, even hatred for The Other, her religious freedom ends at her granddaughter’s nose, as it were. The instant she decides it’s Ok to put her hands on someone else because some stupid book told her to, or because some idiot in a suit behind a pulpit told her it was, at that very instant, she needs to be separated from the rest of society.

    Without declaring religion itself to be a mental disorder, I’m not sure how we as a society can put her into the mental health care system.

    Who gets to say which religious beliefs justify mental care?

    Should we start with the belief of grown adults that there is an invisible bloodthirsty zombie Santa Claus who lives in the sky and watches everything we do, and who is so insane that he will punish and torture us forever with fire if we don’t believe in him and do exactly what he says? …and that he’s the good guy, and he loves us?

    Actually, I’d argue that it’s a good place to start.

    Short of that, we can only do what we do: Lock up the people who assault other people.

  19. J-Dub says:

    Okay, I’m not a proponent for violence either…but is everyone agreeing that it’s actually okay for a 16-year-old to be having sex?? This act was done at her grandmother’s home no less…and I feel that her grandmother would have had the same reaction whether it was a boy or a girl. No grandmother wants to open a door to discover that their 16-YEAR-OLD is having sex. That in itself is immoral. I believe she went way overboard by beating her with a cane but I do feel some type of discipline was necessary…and for some reason none of you have addressed that. I’m a responsible parent and I certainly don’t want to walk in on my 16-year-old having sex with ANYONE…whether it’s in my home or not. I teach them that sex is something that is reserved for responsible MARRIED adults. I believe that is the message that should be conveyed here.

  20. JanieBelle says:

    Thanks for stopping by, J-Dub,

    Why is it immoral? It’s a basic biological drive, like eating or breathing. You’re suggesting she should be disciplined for being human, which seems a silly idea to me.

    Why do you tie sex to marriage? On what authority? And why should she, or I, or anyone else follow your rules?

    I guess what I’m asking is, what gives you (or anyone else) the right to dictate what should or should not go on between this girl’s (or my, or anyone else’s) sheets?

    I look forward to your response.

  21. J-Dub says:

    Hi, JanieBelle

    Thanks for your reply and most of all thanks for being respectful. I believe it is healthy (and normal) when people can “agree to disagree.”

    I can tell you that I base my beliefs on the Bible and God being the supreme authority. I recognize Him as being the creator of all things and thus I always try to submit my will to His. I Corinthians 6:18 says: “Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. Fornication is: Voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other.

    I agree with you that certain urges…like sexual urges are normal. However, I do not believe there is a “free ticket” towards giving in to those urges…whether natural or unnatural. I believe we all must attempt to use “self-control” and attempt to abstain from those things which we know or feel to be immoral.

    When I was 16 years old, it was natural for me to have sexual urges. I was a young man and had all types of hormones racing through my body. But at 16 I was not emotionally, economically, nor financially prepared or responsible enough to care for a child….and thus, that would dictate (beside the fact that I wasn’t married) that I had no reason to be having sex. I see sex not just as a physical means to pleasure but as God’s primary means for procreation. I believe He set THE standard in the garden of eden and created sex as the means to populate the Earth and for it to be enjoyed by married male and female couples. Of course time has seen a great change in the way that standard is followed and I believe that is directly tied to the fact that God also created us to have “free will.” Yes, God was so good that he didn’t MAKE us follow His standard but He gave us a choice….but with that choice we should never forgot who our creator is and we should live our lives in reverence to Him…not just fulfilling our own desires but living our lives in a way that glorifies Him…showing our appreciation to Him for creating us in the first place. That’s my firm belief and trust me, I don’t claim to be perfect. I sway from what I know to be right at times (we all make mistakes)…but I believe my ultimate responsibility is to always tell what I know and believe to be right and try my best to follow it.

  22. JanieBelle says:

    Hi again!

    I can tell you that I base my beliefs on the Bible and God being the supreme authority. I recognize Him as being the creator of all things and thus I always try to submit my will to His. I Corinthians 6:18 says: “Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. Fornication is: Voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other.

    Well, I’m very glad that you previously mentioned about agreeing to disagree. I base my beliefs on logic, reason, and the words of His Noodliness, The Flying Spaghetti Monster. I Spaghettios 6:18 says: “Flee to rampant fornication. Every sin that a woman doeth is without guilt or punishment unless she hurteth someone else or violateth their right to do the same; but he that committeth theocracy sinneth against his own body.” Theocracy is: Shoving your superstition onto other people, and expecting them to comply with your superstitions.

    I agree with you that certain urges…like sexual urges are normal. However, I do not believe there is a “free ticket” towards giving in to those urges…whether natural or unnatural. I believe we all must attempt to use “self-control” and attempt to abstain from those things which we know or feel to be immoral.

    Well, you’re free to believe whatever silly thing you like, but the question really is, “Why should anyone else care”? I don’t “know or feel” sex to be immoral, in or out of a marriage commitment. You’re basing your premise on a false assumption.

    Now beating up a teenage girl? That I KNOW and FEEL to be immoral. If anyone is “sinning” in that situation, it’s the grandmother, not the granddaughter.

    I also KNOW and FEEL that pushing religion is immoral, as it’s a scam for profit and power, brainwashed into kids before they’re old enough to see how silly the notion is, for no better reason than to perpetuate its control, its power, and its money.

    You’re also free to apply whatever self-denial masochism techniques you like to yourself – abstinence, fasting, holding your breath til you pass out – but passing judgement on those of us who choose to do otherwise is rather arrogant of you, don’t you think?

    I wouldn’t walk around trumpeting how immoral you are for those choices, why do you feel it necessary to put other people down so?

    But at 16 I was not emotionally, economically, nor financially prepared or responsible enough to care for a child

    In case you hadn’t noticed, nobody was discussing pregnancy here, and indeed, in the case at hand, it was not even biologically a possibility. Thus, this statement is absolutely irrelevant.

    and thus, that would dictate (beside the fact that I wasn’t married) that I had no reason to be having sex.

    Wow. If that’s all you think sex is for, you are missing out. And for you to suggest foisting such an opinion on a sixteen year old girl borders on mental abuse to me.

    I see sex not just as a physical means to pleasure but as God’s primary means for procreation. I believe He set THE standard in the garden of eden and created sex as the means to populate the Earth and for it to be enjoyed by married male and female couples.

    Wow. In all honesty, I have to inform you that you are way out of touch with reality.

    Quite the opposite, the Flying Spaghetti Monster created sex several billion years ago, and fortunately He made it a lot of fun. It is meant to be enjoyed for recreation as much or more than anything, as evidenced by the proximity of the beer volcano and the stripper factory in Heaven. Why would He put those things so close together, IN HEAVEN, if He didn’t mean for us to get drunk and screw ourselves silly for all eternity?

    I’ll skip addressing each and every little clause of the rest of your comment and just ask that you provide some evidence to back up anything in your comment.

    So far, you’ve just put people down who don’t take stock in your book.

    Now, if you don’t mind, I’d kind of like you to back up off insulting people, and we can get back to respectful discussion.

  23. JanieBelle says:

    P.S. but thanks for at least not threatening the rest of us with eternal torture.

    That was kind of nice of you.

  24. J-Dub says:

    Hi JanieBelle,

    Thanks again for the reply. I did expect to hear back from you but I will admit that I wasn’t expecting any of your comments to be insulting. Superstitious? I’ve never been superstitious. 🙂

    At any rate, I just want to state that I did not attempt to come down on anyone nor did I try to push my beliefs off on others. Notice that I only spoke about what I “truly believe” after I was asked. I believe that it was received that way because we have very strong opposing opinions and beliefs but that doesn’t stop me in any way from loving you as a person.

    I love EVERYONE…ALL PEOPLE….ALL RACES, ALL CREEDS, ALL BELIEFS…PERIOD. Whether they love me, believe as I do…or believe otherwise, I still love everyone and I will continue to do so. I’m not a basher, homophobic, nor a hater. I’m a person and I was merely exercising free speech and weighing in in on comments about the 16 year old girl and her grandmother.

    Did her grandmother go overboad? Yes, I believe she did…but I also believe parents are responsible for their youth and must take an account of their children’s actions before they are released into adulthood.

    I don’t wish to turn this into an argument…so let me just ask this question…

    are you saying that everyone should have the right to do whatever they feel like doing…that no one (regardless of age) should have to give an account for their actions…and that if there is an urge to do something, you just do it?

  25. JanieBelle says:

    J-Dub,

    I didn’t really mean to be insulting, but rather to demonstrate to you how the rest of the world might feel insulted by your comments.

    Superstitious? I’ve never been superstitious

    No offense dude, but you believe an invisible zombie who craves blood lives in the sky and will burn people forever if they don’t bow down and kiss his ass.

    That would fall under the definition of “superstition”.

    At any rate, I just want to state that I did not attempt to come down on anyone nor did I try to push my beliefs off on others. Notice that I only spoke about what I “truly believe” after I was asked. I believe that it was received that way because we have very strong opposing opinions and beliefs but that doesn’t stop me in any way from loving you as a person.

    Ok, a couple of thoughts for you:

    1. When you start saying that people are immoral because they don’t do things the way you want them to, that’s insulting to them. Just be aware of that, and that’s the point I was making in my previous comment.

    2. I really hate the “love the sin, hate the sinner” crap. That’s such disingenuous concern trolling. “I love you, but you deserve to burn forever” is just dishonest and contradictory.

    I love EVERYONE…ALL PEOPLE….ALL RACES, ALL CREEDS, ALL BELIEFS…PERIOD. Whether they love me, believe as I do…or believe otherwise, I still love everyone and I will continue to do so. I’m not a basher, homophobic, nor a hater. I’m a person and I was merely exercising free speech and weighing in in on comments about the 16 year old girl and her grandmother.

    Well, I’m glad to hear all these things. I hope to see you at the next pride parade, where you’ll happily stand up for equal treatment of all Americans under the Constitution of this republic.

    I’m not arguing against your right to free speech, although bear in mind that this is my living room, so to speak, so your right to free speech in the public square does not extend into my home.

    That said, I don’t ban people for disagreeing with me, and you are welcome to speak freely here. You should however, expect others to have that same freedom, and it’s unlikely that they will all be as kind or treat you with the kid gloves that I have so far.

    Did her grandmother go overboad? Yes, I believe she did…but I also believe parents are responsible for their youth and must take an account of their children’s actions before they are released into adulthood.

    “Overboard” is not the term I would use. I would go with “Child Abuse” and “Assault and Battery”. The “child” did nothing wrong, and did not deserve to be assaulted because her grandmother was stuck in the fifteenth century.

    I don’t wish to turn this into an argument…so let me just ask this question…

    are you saying that everyone should have the right to do whatever they feel like doing…that no one (regardless of age) should have to give an account for their actions…and that if there is an urge to do something, you just do it?

    No, that would be a gross mischaracterization of what I said or what I advocate.

    I believe that all people are free to do whatever the hell they choose to do, so long as they don’t interfere with anyone else’s right to do the same.

    “Your right to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose” as it were.

  26. Stephanie Z says:

    J-Dub, if you’re not hurting anyone, yes. Do it. Know that there may be consequences (there are always consequences), but if those are acceptable to you, why not?

    That’s what you did in exercising your free speech. If you didn’t educate yourself as to the consequences of making arguments based on religion on Janie’s blog, that’s hardly Janie’s fault. The information was quite freely available, so it’s rather disingenuous to act surprised now.

    So would you like to comment on what wouldn’t be going “overboard” in a situation like this? For the record, I see nothing wrong in a sixteen-year-old having sex. The idea that they wouldn’t be is really quite recent, historically speaking. The luxury to delay procreation several years beyond sexual maturity is quite new.

  27. J-Dub says:

    JanieBell,

    I would like to dialogue offline with you, if you’re up to it. Do you mind emailing me at: [redacted by JanieBelle]?

    Thanks

  28. JanieBelle says:

    Sorry, J-Dub,

    I don’t do Email with strange men.

    The discussion started publicly, what’s wrong with continuing it publicly?

  29. Stephanie Z says:

    See, Janie? I told you I was scary.

  30. JanieBelle says:

    …and nobody even got warmed up yet…

  31. J-Dub says:

    Stephanie Z,

    Thanks for your comment.

    I believe we all know there is a dividing line between what people feel is moral and immoral. I know we will all never agree on that.

    You did say something that I can side with and that is…if you want to do something, and can accept the consequences, do it. I believe that’s what free will is all about it. I was just confused as to whether the belief was that people can do anything they want to do and there wouldn’t be any consequences. Yes, I too believe people can do whatever they want to do but they should count up the consequences before they choose to do so. Even if they don’t hurt anyone in the process there are still consequences.

    Let me say this to clear the air as well…I stumbled upon this blog after I Googled the story about the grandmother and 16 year-old granddaughter. I wasn’t exactly sure who’s “living room” I had stumbled into nor the overriding belief of all. I only decided to post a comment after reading some of the other comments, not to speak out against any person or group in particular but just to share a different perspective amongst other adults.

    Also, when I said I love everyone, I really meant that. I wasn’t saying I love people but hate what they do. I have a genuine love for people…period, and that won’t ever change. Yes, I am a Christian and I cannot speak for all Christians, but I don’t want to be grouped with others who are labeled as being narrow-minded and haters of others and their lifestyles. I cannot truly judge anyone because we’re all in the same boat. We’re all humans living on the same Earth. I believe God is the ultimate judge and I leave that job up to Him solely. If anyone here feels I’m here to lash out or speak out against anyone, that is not my intent and please forgive me if I gave that impression.

  32. J-Dub says:

    Janie,

    I’ll keep it here in the public forum. Thanks 🙂

  33. JanieBelle says:

    I’ve only got a sec at the moment, so let me just say two quick things:

    1. I redacted your Email address, J-Dub. No point in attracting the spam bots to your inbox.

    2. I appreciate your somewhat more reasonable demeanor to this point than that of similarly self-identified Christians that have passed this way.

    Do continue the discussion while I’m temporarily indisposed.

  34. J-Dub says:

    Thanks, Janie

    I actually appreciate the dialogue thus far. When people disagree they usually feel compelled to fire flaming opinions back at each other until someone either a) gets offended or b) gets tired. 🙂 That’s not necessary and the end result is usually the same. All parties end up pissed off with no true understanding or respect for the other.

  35. Stephanie Z says:

    J-Dub, you started by speaking of discipline. What kind of discipline would you consider appropriate if you were to discover your teenager having sex? In more practical terms, what kind of discipline do you think would be effective in changing the behavior of someone who is already old enough to be granted privileges like operating heavy machinery (driving) without just pushing the behavior underground, where you can’t have any influence on it? It strikes me that open discussion of the consequences that follow naturally (without parental imposition) from the behavior would be much more effective at dealing with the situation. There comes a point, well before turning a child out to cope on their own, where you want to guide their decision-making instead of co-opting it, or they’ll never learn how to make these decisions.

  36. J-Dub says:

    Stephanie,

    You bring up a valid topic (that I so conveniently left alone) 🙂

    If I can be a little transparent…I was brought up the “old fashioned” way. When I say that I mean this…there were no “time outs” and you rarely got put on punishment because we didn’t have a lot of things to actually be punished from…besides perhaps going outside. With that said, corporal punishment was the exception and the rule. 🙂 Of course when I became a parent, I began to discipline my children the same way I was raised but as I’ve matured and gotten older I’ve begun to see and use different forms of discipline…to include spanking, but I now reserve that for my younger children.

    Now…I have children ranging from age 19 all the way down to 2 (I know, why can’t he just answer the question) 🙂 My 19 year old still lives at home and is actually pregnant and expecting in November. Of course we didn’t receive that new positively (for more reasons other than the fact that she’s not married) but we’re still trying to support her at this time because she really needs us.

    Okay…on to the question….how would I discipline my 16 year old if I caught them having sex. I know for sure that I wouldn’t spank them because I feel that wouldn’t be productive for a 16 year old. Don’t get me wrong, I believe there are certain behaviors that you can beat out of children…but I truly don’t believe anyone will stop having sex for fear of a spanking. LOL! 🙂 Again, I have to fall back on my beliefs and my responsibility as a parent. Since I actually try to follow the Bible, I believe my responsibility would be to convey to my child what the Bible says regarding premarital sex. I’m also a straight-forward/practical parent so I would certainly discuss the hazards of unprotected sex (pregnancy, STDs, being etc). Other than that, I would probably try to be more cognizant as to their whereabouts and use judgment when faced with having to leave them unattended.

    What are your thoughts?

  37. Stephanie Z says:

    On spanking (a child), my thought is that it has it’s place only to prevent behavior in the very young where the consequences are dire and not easily explained in a way the child will understand (playing with fire and traffic, teasing strange dogs). Anything else is a shortcut for the parent and/or preventing the child from understanding consequence.

    If I discovered my child having sex (not already knowing), I would apologize for interrupting a private moment and let them know that I’d be waiting to talk to them when they were done. Both of them. Then we would all discuss the potential consequences of what they were doing and how they intended to deal with or prevent them. When I say all, I mean as much of the family as was capable of treating the discussion seriously. Point being, if the kids are mature enough to have sex, they’re mature enough to discuss it openly.

    Not that this approach would surprise them, and it wouldn’t be the first discussion on the matter. It would just be the first one they had to face with their partner.

  38. Stephanie Z says:

    And I’m going to have to step out of the conversation for a bit myself. I’m in the middle of a migraine and can’t look at any more light text on a dark background at the moment.

  39. Rystefn says:

    Interesting the age is being pointed at. The US, right now, has the highest age of consent the world has ever seen. In all of history, in all the world, no government has made the age of consent above 18, and few have equaled it. In point of fact, much of the United States has placed the age of consent below 18 as well. I find this very telling.

    Had I walked into my own daughter’s bedroom (had I one) in similar circumstances, I’d react the same way I would react to doing so to any of my friends or acquaintances. I’d apologize and leave. If I hadn’t already imparted upon her MANY years before that a sense of responsibility and a basic understanding of human sexuality, I’d be an unforgivably lacking father.

    Anyone who thinks their 16 year old daughter is a virgin in this country is probably wrong. I don’t mean 60% likely to be wrong, either. I mean 90% likely to be wrong. Yes, I’m ballparking that, but I’m sure it’s not far off the mark.

    Yes, I am fully aware that my ideas of sex and sexuality are far outside the norm. More than anyone reading this does, I assure you. That’s because the norm is horrifically repressed from centuries of residual religious guilt-tripping.

    Telling someone sex is wrong because the invisible man is going to set you on fire is quite a lot worse than just beating them with a stick in my book.

  40. JanieBelle says:

    I have some lengthy comments for this thread at this point, but they’ll have to wait.

    Just so y’all know I haven’t bailed.

  41. Gemini Girl says:

    Hey JanieBelle, It took me a while to get back and I’ve obviously missed out on some interesting discussion. I’ve scanned the discussion and it appears to be based on religion, 16 year olds having sex and the right to inflict our views and beliefs on others.

    My observation that prison is probably not the “right” spot for the grandmother obviously would benefit from clarification. She resorted to physical violence in the misguided/inappropriate/mistaken thinking that violence would solve the problem that SHE perceived existed. Violence solves nothing and adults do not have the right to abuse a child in their care. It is an abuse of their power within the relationship.

    The grandmother had a problem, she could have found an acceptable way to communicate her feelings. Yes, prison is the logical place for her to reflect on her actions. Hopefully she will reflect, but she needs to be educated to difference and equality. Currently she believes her life’s experiences to be the “be all and the end all”.

    In the event a same sex relationship “offends” her religious beliefs, oh well. If there is a God and this greater being created us in “his” likeness, then our sexual orientation should not result in persecution.

    My experience of organized religion has made me cautious. I’ve run into too many individuals who quote God (I guess they have friends in “high” places) and the Bible (they believe God and Jesus dictated it’s contents) as their justification for why {fill in whatever you want here} is wrong, unacceptable or immoral.

    I continue to wonder why I don’t criticize people for their religious beliefs, but they may feel responsible to bring me over to their way of thinking. I wonder how those who describe themselves as “pro-life” feel comfortable bombing clinics where terminations take place. I wonder about how one reconciles church on Sunday with sexually, physically and/or emotionally abusing someone more vulnerable than oneself during the rest of the week.

    I wonder how a parent or grandparent can hurt someone they profess to love because of how the person expresses their love. The grandmother should go to prison, I should have clearly stated that, but the problem is bigger than punishing her for her cruelty. She needs learn she is the one who did harm, not her granddaughter,and until she comes to this realization no positive change will happen.

  42. Gemini Girl says:

    I have a daughter who will be 15 in the fall. We’ve been talking about sex and sexuality since she was a little person. Actually, we’ve been talking about a lot of things and she’s been given lots of opportunities to make choices for herself since she’s been a toddler. Everything that has happened in her life and hopefully every communication she has had with me has been practice for those moments when she is solely responsible for the consequences of her choices.

    Humans are sexual from birth. This is healthy. Personal space, privacy and respect for individual boundaries are also healthy.

    Whatever a parent/guardian’s feelings are if they walk into a room uninvited and discover sexual activity, I believe respect and a respectful response are necessary.

    On the other subject of spanking. I don’t believe in spanking. I believe spanking sends the message “I’m bigger and stronger than you, so I can physically punish you”. We tell children “hands are for helping, not for hurting” and yet, if we spank we are using our hands for hurting. Additionally, we tell angry children to “use your words”, but then we spank. Lots of mixed messages!

    There are many ways to communicate anger, disappointment, concern, worry, whatever using our words. I’d like to add, there is no need to use words which cause pain or hurt; diminish feelings of self esteem or self worth, because words can and do hurt as much as physical punishment. I know it may sound as if I expect parents/adults to be perfect. I don’t. No one is perfect. I believe, however, that if we remember how easily pain can be inflicted on others our responses will always be tempered with compassion and empathy.

  43. JanieBelle says:

    Thank you Gemini Girl, for your thoughts, and for returning to share them.

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